Discussion:
Can the existence of God be proven by mathematics?
(too old to reply)
felix_unger
2013-03-09 23:44:58 UTC
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Raw Message
<snip>
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
<snip>
--
rgds,

Pete
-------
“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”
Yap
2013-03-10 07:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by felix_unger
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
<snip>
--
rgds,
Pete
-------
“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”
Religious idiots say 1+1+1=1, do you believe their maths?
Graham Cooper
2013-03-10 07:50:31 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by felix_unger
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?

I thought of about a dozen.

fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
...
Post by felix_unger
“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”
Loading Image...




ADAM
KINGS BEACH
QUEENSLAND

Not only did the Big Bang "ROAST A LAMB" H-He (*STARS*)
it also adds crackle when nearly ready! Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F....

BIG BANG
..\
....\
.. .. \
.. .. ..\ Expansion
. . . . . \
. . . . . . \
HYDROGEN. . / Billion Years Old
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
1G STAR H->He FUSION "Let there be light!"
|-|
|-|
|-|
.. \\\\\\\\\\\ Supernova-> Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F ..
99% HYDROGEN/
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
2G STAR
|-| o o O -O- o Planets orbit 2nd Generation Star
|-| o o O -O- o Planets Cool
|-| o Baywatch!
|-| YOU ARE HERE! 13,700,000,000 Years
Bob Casanova
2013-03-10 20:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
Graham Cooper
2013-03-10 23:21:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
--
Bob C.
Errr.... fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
Post by Bob Casanova
Post by Graham Cooper
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
1G STAR H->He FUSION "Let there be light!"
|-|
|-|
|-|
.. \\\\\\\\\\\ Supernova-> Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F ..
99% HYDROGEN/
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
2G STAR
|-| o o O -O- o Planets orbit 2nd Generation Star


or in SkeptiLogic ..... SEE THAT PLANET THERE!



Herc
--

www.CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg

^^^ THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ^^^
Bob Casanova
2013-03-11 16:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
Errr.... fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
No, Graham, the Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.

Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
linuxgal
2013-03-12 02:16:46 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob Casanova
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
I consider the opposite sex to be finely crafted, but I suppose if that
were not the case, humans wouldn't be here to comment.
--
Halftime at Circvs Maximvs, and the Lions lead the Christians 326-0
Bob Casanova
2013-03-12 17:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:16:46 -0800, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by linuxgal
Post by linuxgal
Post by Bob Casanova
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
I consider the opposite sex to be finely crafted
Why, thank you! But my wife might disagree... ;-)
Post by linuxgal
, but I suppose if that
were not the case, humans wouldn't be here to comment.
Yet another miracle!
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
george152
2013-03-12 18:55:24 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:16:46 -0800, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by linuxgal
Post by linuxgal
Post by Bob Casanova
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
I consider the opposite sex to be finely crafted
Why, thank you! But my wife might disagree... ;-)
Well, my girlfriend is very finely crafted and thinks gods to be
figments of tortured imaginations
Bob Casanova
2013-03-13 17:15:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 07:55:24 +1300, the following appeared
Post by Bob Casanova
Post by Bob Casanova
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 18:16:46 -0800, the following appeared
in sci.skeptic, posted by linuxgal
Post by linuxgal
Post by Bob Casanova
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
I consider the opposite sex to be finely crafted
Why, thank you! But my wife might disagree... ;-)
Well, my girlfriend is very finely crafted and thinks gods to be
figments of tortured imaginations
"Crafted" being a metaphor, of course... ;-)
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
felix_unger
2013-03-13 08:28:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Bob Casanova
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
I don't get it
--
rgds,

Pete
-------
http://theangryatheist.weebly.com
Bob Casanova
2013-03-13 17:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 19:28:21 +1100, the following appeared
Post by felix_unger
Post by Bob Casanova
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
I don't get it
It's a paraphrase of a claim by a fairly well-known NetLoon
named John McCoy (AKA "McNameless" to avoid attracting him),
and pretty much sums up his contention that any confirmatory
evidence for anything he dislikes is "circular logic". Like
I said, a NetLoon.
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
Graham Cooper
2013-03-12 02:55:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
Errr....   fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
No, Graham, the Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
Pure DUCKSPEAK!

They RENAMED the Anthropic Principle to this

"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS" ATHEIST GARBAGE!


Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.

The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.

Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.

Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.

It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.

Herc
--

*** LOOK! THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***

Loading Image...
george152
2013-03-12 03:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graham Cooper
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principle to this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS" ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Herc
--
*** LOOK! THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***
http://CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg
Look.A retards rant with CAPs and all.
You don't get this on porno sites
Graham Cooper
2013-03-12 05:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by george152
Post by Graham Cooper
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principle to this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS"   ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Herc
--
*** LOOK!  THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***
http://CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg
Look.A retards rant with CAPs and all.
You don't get this on porno sites
You are a clueless idiot who doesn't even READ what he responds to.

The TOPIC is how improbable it is for Cosmic Constants

too all "work together" such that the burnt out Hydrogen core
of 1st Generation Suns explodes to produce exactly the right
temperature range to complete the element chain.





BIG BANG
..\
....\
.. .. \
.. .. ..\ Expansion
. . . . . \
. . . . . . \
HYDROGEN. . / Billion Years Old
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
1G STAR H->He FUSION "Let there be light!"
|-|
|-|
|-|
.. \\\\\\\\\\\ Supernova-> Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F ..
99% HYDROGEN/
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
2G STAR
|-| o o O -O- o Planets orbit 2nd Generation Star
|-| o o O -O- o Planets Cool
|-| o Baywatch!
|-| YOU ARE HERE! 13,700,000,000 Years


YOU ARE HERE!

COURTESY OF SUPERNOVAE!

and 150 other Amazing Physics Processes that JUST WORK!
Ken
2013-03-12 15:14:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graham Cooper
and 150 other Amazing Physics Processes that JUST WORK!
Too bad your synapses DON'T WORK
Bob Casanova
2013-03-12 17:55:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 22:03:14 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
Post by george152
Post by Graham Cooper
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principle to this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS"   ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Herc
--
*** LOOK!  THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***
http://CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg
Look.A retards rant with CAPs and all.
You don't get this on porno sites
You are a clueless idiot who doesn't even READ what he responds to.
Oh the irony...
Post by Graham Cooper
The TOPIC is how improbable it is for Cosmic Constants
No, it's whether the existence of God can be proved by
mathematics. It can't.
Post by Graham Cooper
too all "work together" such that the burnt out Hydrogen core
of 1st Generation Suns explodes to produce exactly the right
temperature range to complete the element chain.
BIG BANG
..\
....\
.. .. \
.. .. ..\ Expansion
. . . . . \
. . . . . . \
HYDROGEN. . / Billion Years Old
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
1G STAR H->He FUSION "Let there be light!"
|-|
|-|
|-|
.. \\\\\\\\\\\ Supernova-> Li, Be, B, C, N, O, F ..
99% HYDROGEN/
. . . . . /
.. .. ../ Collapses under own gravity
.. .. /
..../
2G STAR
|-| o o O -O- o Planets orbit 2nd Generation Star
|-| o o O -O- o Planets Cool
|-| o Baywatch!
|-| YOU ARE HERE! 13,700,000,000 Years
YOU ARE HERE!
COURTESY OF SUPERNOVAE!
and 150 other Amazing Physics Processes that JUST WORK!
Review the meaning of the Anthropic Principle, which says
none of this "proves" anything. Since you seem to have
neglected to actually read it, here it is again:

The Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
Bob Casanova
2013-03-12 17:51:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 19:55:15 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
Errr....   fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
No, Graham, the Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principle to this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS" ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Do you always revert to the use of a BabbleGenerator when
presented with something you can't refute?
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
nature bats_last
2013-03-13 13:13:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
Errr....   fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
No, Graham, the Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principleto this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS"   ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Give it up, Bob: he has an entire bunker stocked to
bursting CAPITAL LETTERS!!


On the other hand, it's obvious that he's never read
physicist Victor Stenger's book, wherein Stenger
demonstrates that while individual constants can not be
varied too widely, taken two or more at a time they can
be varied quite widely indeed.



http://tinyurl.com/az9ysu7


NBL
Post by Graham Cooper
Herc
--
*** LOOK!  THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***
http://CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg
Bob Casanova
2013-03-13 17:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 06:13:18 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by nature bats_last
Post by nature bats_last
Post by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 16:21:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Bob Casanova
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 23:50:31 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in sci.skeptic, posted by Graham Cooper
Post by Graham Cooper
<snip>
  5.  I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
  razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
  (anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
  measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
  otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we.  I could accept a
  few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
  on each other.
Is this 150 Anthropic list available?
I thought of about a dozen.
fusion temperature in supernovae
narrow window of Earth Gravity
osmosis
sugar sweetness
And let's not forget the finely crafted Anthropic
Principle...assuming you can follow the logic.
Errr....   fundamental constants such as those responsible for fusion
temperature in Supernovae *IS* the Anthropic Principle.
No, Graham, the Anthropic Principle says that it would be
impossible for us to observe any universal constants which
preclude life, since if they precluded life we wouldn't
exist to observe them. IOW, the "finely crafted constants"
argument is subtly circular and proves nothing.
Do you also consider it miraculous that everyone's legs are
"finely crafted" to be exactly long enough to reach the
ground?
Pure DUCKSPEAK!
They RENAMED the Anthropic Principleto this
"THAT'S THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE
THAT'S JUST THE WAY iT IS"   ATHEIST GARBAGE!
Make a HYPOCRITE OUT OF ALL OF YOU
for saying Religion is satisfied with answers
that ARE NOT ANSWERS AT ALL.
The LOGICAL LEVEL of the ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE
is no more convoluted than Pychological Introspection.
Sure a LIAR can't tell if he's talking straight.. but it's a SIMPLE
APPLICATION OF PROBABILITY
by analysing the RANGE OF OPPORTUNITY of several independent Cosmic
Fundamental Constants.
Yes is IS amazing that our existence would never be if SUPERNOVAE
never FUSED all the ELEMENTS.
It is ALSO A MEASURABLE DATUM.
Give it up, Bob: he has an entire bunker stocked to
bursting CAPITAL LETTERS!!
Yeah, I know. But occasionally I take him out and dust him
off to see if he's developed an ability to think, so far
without result.
Post by nature bats_last
On the other hand, it's obvious that he's never read
physicist Victor Stenger's book, wherein Stenger
demonstrates that while individual constants can not be
varied too widely, taken two or more at a time they can
be varied quite widely indeed.
But that doesn't change the fact that the Anthropic
Principle is logically irrefutable.
Post by nature bats_last
http://tinyurl.com/az9ysu7
NBL
Post by Graham Cooper
Herc
--
*** LOOK!  THE INVISIBLE SKY PIXIE ***
http://CHATZOMBIE.com/Dragon.jpg
--
Bob C.

"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."

- McNameless
P***@aol.com
2013-03-10 13:50:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
NO! Nor by any other known method!
Barb Knox
2013-03-11 03:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <***@mid.individual.net>,
felix_unger <***@nothere.com> wrote:

[SNIP]

No. *Nothing* about the "real world" can be proven by mathematics.

"As far as the propositions of mathematics refer to reality, they are
not certain; and so far as they are certain, they do not refer to
reality."
-- Albert Einstein
--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum videtur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------
raven1
2013-03-11 12:28:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<snip>
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
<snip>
Are you serious? You realize that "IlBeBauck", the author of this
paragraph, is a complete imbecile who has no idea what a physics
constant is, don't you? He got this claim from a Creationist website,
and when finally pressed to list some of these supposed "constants",
they turned out to be nonsense like "number of planets in the
universe", a quantity that is neither known, a "physics constant", nor
at all relevant to anything.
felix_unger
2013-03-11 13:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by raven1
<snip>
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
<snip>
Are you serious? You realize that "IlBeBauck", the author of this
paragraph, is a complete imbecile who has no idea what a physics
constant is, don't you? He got this claim from a Creationist website,
and when finally pressed to list some of these supposed "constants",
they turned out to be nonsense like "number of planets in the
universe", a quantity that is neither known, a "physics constant", nor
at all relevant to anything.
I had no idea what he was talking about. I just thought it needed
investigating.
--
rgds,

Pete
-------
"Myself when young did eagerly frequent, doctor and saint and heard great argument, thought it about but evermore, came out the same door wherein I went" -The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám
raven1
2013-03-11 13:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by felix_unger
Post by raven1
<snip>
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
<snip>
Are you serious? You realize that "IlBeBauck", the author of this
paragraph, is a complete imbecile who has no idea what a physics
constant is, don't you? He got this claim from a Creationist website,
and when finally pressed to list some of these supposed "constants",
they turned out to be nonsense like "number of planets in the
universe", a quantity that is neither known, a "physics constant", nor
at all relevant to anything.
I had no idea what he was talking about.
Neither did he.
Post by felix_unger
I just thought it needed
investigating.
It doesn't. It's scientifically illiterate gobbledygook.
MarkA
2013-03-12 16:58:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by felix_unger
Post by raven1
<snip>
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the
150+ razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical
tolerance otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I
could accept a few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which
are all dependent on each other.
<snip>
Are you serious? You realize that "IlBeBauck", the author of this
paragraph, is a complete imbecile who has no idea what a physics
constant is, don't you? He got this claim from a Creationist website,
and when finally pressed to list some of these supposed "constants",
they turned out to be nonsense like "number of planets in the universe",
a quantity that is neither known, a "physics constant", nor at all
relevant to anything.
I had no idea what he was talking about. I just thought it needed
investigating.
The exists, on Earth, a group of people who are very keen to investigate.
Furthermore, they don't care where the investigations lead them. If there
really is a god who pulls the strings, that would be a sensational
discovery, and they would embrace it. OTOH, if investigation shows a
naturalistic explanation, they are OK with that, too. They are called
"scientists".
--
MarkA
Keeper of Things Put There Only Just The Night Before
About eight o'clock
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